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Bo H: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to yet another episode of Down and Dirty. With me, I'm Idaho Beau, and…

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vicki fisk: I'm Vivacious Vic, and we welcome you to this show. We are very excited to continue on our journey with…

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vicki fisk: Interviewing… Men in our life.

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vicki fisk: We've had Matt Denning on.

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vicki fisk: Two times, our major guru of permaculture.

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vicki fisk: And learned so much, and had such inspiring conversations of doers. We're interviewing doers who are in their own communities.

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vicki fisk: creating a lifestyle that is totally meaningful to each one of them. We interviewed Bo's nephew, who lives on 5 acres up in northern Idaho.

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vicki fisk: And… Now, tonight, and today?

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Bo H: interject, we cannot forget we've also had Don Newsome from BBS Radio on.

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vicki fisk: Sorry, excuse me, a very important amigo in our lives.

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Bo H: Yes, yes.

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vicki fisk: Who is very, very involved in this whole personal sovereignty.

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vicki fisk: you know, working the land, going back to the land, honoring the land, the water, everything. So, this show, we are interviewing Jay Blackhurst, who is my son-in-law.

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vicki fisk: who lives on 2 acres, an hour and a half south of Boise in southern Idaho.

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vicki fisk: And… Of course, I'm a little bit biased, because I adore this person, and I love him.

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vicki fisk: And he's married to my daughter, and they have my granddaughter, so it's a very… it's a very special time for me to be able to share this person with the greater whole. We love to hear stories. Everybody loves to tell stories, and everybody loves to hear stories.

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vicki fisk: So I thought it would be interesting to ask Jay some questions as to how…

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vicki fisk: he came to who he is right now. And, of course, I've known him for a long time, so I've watched the journey, but you never know the intimate details about things. And…

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vicki fisk: I would… one caveat here is I live in the house that I bought from Jay and Amy.

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vicki fisk: And much of our past shows have been me sharing what has happened and transpired on this property, and also how I am reconfiguring it to fit my lifestyle and my needs and my age.

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vicki fisk: And so, there's so much tied in. Blood, sweat, tears, family, love, And… so…

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vicki fisk: I'm gonna introduce Jay Blackhurst, and…

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vicki fisk: Bo and I will ask some questions, I think.

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vicki fisk: But we may not need to ask that many questions, because really, the first one I always want to ask people is.

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vicki fisk: What got you interested in personal sovereignty? What got you started on working the land and learning…

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vicki fisk: You know, how to work together with all of the rhythms of nature and the celestial bodies and whatever else you're into that got you to this place

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vicki fisk: of… To me, what looks like total success

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vicki fisk: And, another caveat, you should see the box of peaches that he brought tonight.

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vicki fisk: They are huge, huge, bigger than softballs, Perfectly ripe, and so…

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vicki fisk: I appreciate the bounty that we share with one another. So, Jay, if you could share with us, kind of.

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vicki fisk: some of your story, and how you got where you are, and what are your ethics? I know your work ethics, but what are some of the belief systems that challenged you? Personal failures, personal, successes?

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vicki fisk: And, it's all yours now.

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vicki fisk: Well, I guess it all kind of start… I mean, really started since I was born. I mean, my grandfather…

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vicki fisk: My maternal grandfather, was a gladiola grower and breeder.

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vicki fisk: So… He grew up… or he raised my mother at a…

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vicki fisk: at a dam up north of Boise called Air Rock Dam, and

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vicki fisk: He would… he would change the water. When they called for more water, he would adjust the valves.

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vicki fisk: And then he would go down to his…

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vicki fisk: garden, and then he had the whole day. He, I mean, he really didn't have to do much except for, do a little bit of stuff in the morning, and then he… he had the rest of the day to himself, and he used to go and harvest

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vicki fisk: soil from…

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vicki fisk: the creeks up above Air Rock Dam, he would go in the willows, and he would go grab that black soil, and then he would bring it back to his garden.

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vicki fisk: And… he…

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vicki fisk: From the time I remember, he always had gladiolas, and then he started a gladiola farm here in Boise.

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vicki fisk: On 6 acres, sometimes 10 acres, it was all rented ground.

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vicki fisk: And so, from the time that I was maybe

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vicki fisk: 10… no, 8… 7 or 8 years old, I was out in the field with him. So, he planted 6 acres of gladiolas, and I don't know if you're familiar with gladiolas, but they're very, very hard to grow.

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vicki fisk: And, they're… they need a lot of attending to. They need cultivation, they need… and we hand-planted everything.

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vicki fisk: So, from the time I can remember, I was always out in the field working with him.

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vicki fisk: In the field, working on… Planting in the spring, to weeding, to

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vicki fisk: harvesting, and then I would drive around all the surrounding area with him in a van that was

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vicki fisk: Insulated and full of…

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vicki fisk: gladiolos, and it was freezing cold, and it… it was… he, I had the air conditioner running all the time because he wanted to keep good flowers, and we drove to every florist from

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vicki fisk: extreme western Idaho all the way to central Idaho. So we would drive Probably 4 days a week.

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vicki fisk: to deliver flowers. So, I've been around

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vicki fisk: plants, for the most part, since I was…

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vicki fisk: as long as I can remember. So, that was my first introduction. Like, I don't know any different, so it was kind of part of my life. And then, of course, I went through high school, then I thought I would get a new job, and I went and worked in…

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vicki fisk: food service for 4 hours, and then I went back to the field.

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vicki fisk: So, I never really got… had any other job that, you know, per se, when I was growing up, except for working for my grandfather. And…

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vicki fisk: on the farm. And it was an urban farm, too, so I kind of got the benefit of growing up on

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vicki fisk: In town, but on a farm.

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vicki fisk: So, we would go to work on the farm.

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vicki fisk: But we lived in town, so…

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vicki fisk: That's kind of how I… that's kind of how I got started, per se. But, I guess it's… I don't really…

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vicki fisk: know any different, and then, you know, I…

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vicki fisk: Went away and did high school, and…

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vicki fisk: did some other things, and then realized that I really wanted to be more sovereign with food, water, shelter, energy.

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vicki fisk: So, I kind of started…

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vicki fisk: Diving into a few more of those things, and it was easy for me to grow things, because it's just like, well, my grandpa taught us, you know, you tend the flower, you just pay attention to it, just like any other plant. So, you grow potatoes, and…

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vicki fisk: they need more water, you give them more water, you know, and they need more hilling, so you hill them up. So I kind of… it was just innate in me, so…

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vicki fisk: I guess it kinda… That's where it kind of began.

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vicki fisk: And then it just kind of snowballed from there, and then I guess I'm more of…

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vicki fisk: instead of learned it, I remembered it. Oof.

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Bo H: I call it. I love that.

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vicki fisk: I call it deep remembering. Because anybody who's ever alive today's family has made it… their ancestors have made it through.

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vicki fisk: All bottlenecks in humanity, so… Anybody alive today has the history of growing food, Haunting and game.

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vicki fisk: You know, building homes,

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vicki fisk: You know, all of the different skill set that it takes to live in the past.

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vicki fisk: And so… I…

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vicki fisk: you know, it never even… I never even questioned whether it was something that I knew how to do, it was already in me, and so I just really have worked

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vicki fisk: I don't even really have to work at it, I just remember. I was like, oh, I've done this before. This isn't foreign to me. When I started to saw a log, or mill a log into a tree, or cut a tree down and turn it into a…

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vicki fisk: Turn a tree into a log, and then turn it into a board, and then build with it.

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vicki fisk: That is, you know, it's as old as I am, which, you know, if my DNA is like anybody else's DNA, it's been around a long time, so it comes along.

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vicki fisk: And I think oftentimes we are told that we need to think about these things and remember them, or… and learn them, but I think we need to not necessarily think about them as much as we need to feel and remember them.

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Bo H: Exactly.

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vicki fisk: Yeah, so that's kind of where I came… that's where, you know, that's… that's kind of how I've approached it more recently. I mean.

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vicki fisk: In the last 15 years, I've been, you know, on a long, deep remembering process.

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vicki fisk: That's really fascinating, because Beau and I have talked about the remembering, and it keeps coming up, in many conversations, in many different circles.

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vicki fisk: Social media, of course, but… but more of the spiritually leaning people who are really awakened to the rhythms of nature and the cycles that we're all going through.

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vicki fisk: the remember… the word remembering is coming up more and more and more, and I remember telling Bo just earlier this week.

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vicki fisk: about the remembering… I can't even remember what it was that I was

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vicki fisk: But… but that is such a critical piece right now for all of us, as we're letting go of all of these outworn ideas and ways and…

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vicki fisk: To remember, to just be still enough, and… and…

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vicki fisk: Committed enough to whatever you're doing.

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vicki fisk: And it bubbles up. It just bubbles up, this remembering, oh yeah! And I find that really wonderful.

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vicki fisk: That you're… that you're doing that, that way.

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Bo H: I feel like… As you were talking about, the spiritual aspect is sitting in that stillness, And…

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Bo H: It's always best to do it when you're out in nature, but like Jay was talking about, he was in nature in a city when he was on the farm.

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Bo H: But being… being connected and being still enough and quiet enough to start remembering who we are, not just what we are.

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Bo H: And I… I agree with you, Jay, that you…

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Bo H: Actually, can connect with that epigenetic Past, if you will.

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Bo H: And your lineage…

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Bo H: I'll tell you one thing, when I'm foraging, I do… I'm a big forager. I do a lot of medicinal plant foraging.

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Bo H: And whenever I can find edible foods, I will do that too. But I know, it's intrinsic within me. It… it's not…

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Bo H: something I had to learn. It was just… and it's a huge desire, too, for me.

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Bo H: So it is that remembering, and I think it's very important

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Bo H: And I think more of us are coming online, that's in air quotes, and remembering who we are.

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vicki fisk: Yeah, for sure. You know, I think…

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vicki fisk: It easily get… we often get stuck in the material aspects of it all.

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Bo H: So…

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vicki fisk: I'll use a tree as an example.

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vicki fisk: So, the part of the tree that you can see is the, you know, the trunk and the branches and the leaves.

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vicki fisk: And that's the part we can actually measure and quantify.

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vicki fisk: And… but there's a whole entire half of the tree that we don't see.

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vicki fisk: And that's the kind of mystery in the unknown.

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vicki fisk: And that's kind of the… I see it more as the, whatever, the more esoteric or spiritual side of it, but modern day has said only the aerial part of the tree exists.

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vicki fisk: Knowing full well that there is a whole part of the tree that is connected

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vicki fisk: Is underground that you can't see.

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vicki fisk: So, I think about the trees all the time. I'm in a pretty good connection with trees, but I often think about not only what I can see, but what I can't see.

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vicki fisk: And that is an equally…

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vicki fisk: important part. No, I don't know more nor less.

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vicki fisk: But, I think often, you know, like, the 60s hippie movement got people back to the land or whatever, but I think they just only connected with what they couldn't see.

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vicki fisk: And that was just too much…

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vicki fisk: of the part that you couldn't see, but now I think it's important to recognize that there's this

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vicki fisk: That's for, if you will, this masculine part and this feminine part that's above and below.

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vicki fisk: Which are equally important, and perfectly balanced.

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vicki fisk: So, you know, when somebody says, well, what do you think's wrong with that tree? And sometimes they're just, you know, they have… they have issues, but…

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vicki fisk: It's not… might not just be the aerial part.

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vicki fisk: It could be something that's going on in the soil part.

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vicki fisk: You know, there could be a lot of different factors, but, I use that as an example of…

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vicki fisk: how I try to see the balance of it all. You know, there's a foundation under every home that we're all sitting in that you can't see in a crawl space and plumbing that is just…

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vicki fisk: As important as what you do see.

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vicki fisk: So… I don't know, that's kind of how I approach… Cut of everything now.

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vicki fisk: From that perspective.

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vicki fisk: The hip.

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Bo H: What do you think and pick?

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vicki fisk: Well, I… I'm… I'm reflecting on…

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vicki fisk: What you see and what you don't see, and it is so integral to

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vicki fisk: like you said, Jay, the mystery. You know, we all want to think we have it figured out, you know, and oh yeah, this is all I really need to know. But what do we really know? You and I talk about it all the time, Bo. I don't know anything.

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vicki fisk: that were what is exactly in front of me in any given moment. Beyond that, I don't know what people are thinking. I don't know what any of the stuff that we hear

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vicki fisk: From almost most people, or most… Avenues of information.

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vicki fisk: I don't know any of it.

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Bo H: Because we weren't there.

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vicki fisk: Well, no, and really what it boils down to now for me is I don't care to know. I don't need to know. I need to really tend my own garden, you know, weed your own garden, which means paying attention to what you're doing in your life, and are you living

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vicki fisk: with integrity? Are you living with honesty?

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vicki fisk: Are you helpful when somebody needs help? You know, those are the measures that I think are the most important ones that are so overlooked now. It's like, my opinion doesn't count for anything.

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vicki fisk: And…

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vicki fisk: you know, what my next brightest, shiny object is, is of no consequence to anybody else, and most of the time, not to me. So, it boils down to, you know, really what's inside of you. What is it that makes you tick? What is it that, when you wake up every day.

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vicki fisk: Oh, wow, I've got another day!

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vicki fisk: That's pretty cool, what am I gonna do with it?

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vicki fisk: And for those of us that are retired, and Jay's not retired by any means, he's got 6 cows, he's got 2 acres, he's got 3… well, 2 properties now, he just sold one so that he can build on his big property.

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vicki fisk: And so he's very busy, and he's got a teenage daughter, and a wife, so he's a pretty busy guy.

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vicki fisk: But, the mystery… the mystery is… So important to acknowledge.

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vicki fisk: That we don't know anything. We don't know anything, because it's all a mystery, really, in the end.

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vicki fisk: And the beginning.

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vicki fisk: Anyone?

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Bo H: Spielber.

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vicki fisk: Anyone?

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vicki fisk: Do you have any questions, that you'd like to ask Jay?

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Bo H: Okay, so let's, get down to the nitty-gritty about the property that you do have. I have not been out there. I was out

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Bo H: To your place when you lived in the yurt?

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Bo H: was years ago.

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Bo H: Yeah.

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Bo H: But Vic tells me you have the two acres, and that you have… I don't believe you have a warm spring on your property, but you dug a trench…

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Bo H: You've built your house, you've got animals, so you want to get into some of the nitty-gritty about

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Bo H: those aspects?

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vicki fisk: You know, we moved to this area from this home that we're in now about 13 years ago.

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vicki fisk: I was, you know, we started planting fruit trees here, and had a garden, but, you know, I was just kind of running out of space. I really…

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vicki fisk: I guess I really needed a little more space to kind of do things, and

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vicki fisk: I went to this area where we are, and it's, there's a lot of geothermal water there, a lot of hot water, and then there's spring water there, so…

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vicki fisk: I fell in love with the place, and I never… I travel all over the world and never felt that I was at home until I was there.

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vicki fisk: And so we… I mean, there's… it's a long, long story, but I ended up meeting a guy by the name of Wayne.

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vicki fisk: And, my grandfather's name was Wayne.

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vicki fisk: So, I met this guy, And he's on the same Farm All C tractor.

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vicki fisk: That my grandfather had.

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vicki fisk: And his… and I met him, and his name was Wayne, and I was like, oh, I'm paying attention. There are no coincidences. He smelled exactly like my grandfather.

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vicki fisk: And I just told him this the other day. I mean, he's known this, but I said, I'm paying attention, and he and I connected, and he was like, who is this guy?

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vicki fisk: And I was just curious, and I would jump on the… he'd be swathing hay, he'd be…

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vicki fisk: cultivating beans, and I just jumped on the tractor, and I'd ride along with him.

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vicki fisk: And… I didn't really have any work at the time, so I was just really curious.

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vicki fisk: And so he kind of took me under his wing a little bit.

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vicki fisk: And then, before you know it, I was cultivating beans with him, helping him cultivate beans, and, you know, usually cultivating beans is kind of a… on an old 19, you know, 40s farm Aussie tractor is a…

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vicki fisk: is not… you know, you can really wipe out a lot of beans really quickly. So, I jumped on that tractor, I felt like I'd done it before, another remembering process.

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vicki fisk: And he…

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vicki fisk: Really opened a lot of opportunities for us to live there. And he gave us a loan to buy a yurt, which we put up on his property.

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vicki fisk: He has geothermal water, artesian hot water.

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vicki fisk: And I ran the water through the floor, heated that yurt, and we lived there for 3 years.

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vicki fisk: Well, we kind of got on our feet, and then…

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vicki fisk: I, we bought some property across the street that has hot water, that didn't have hot water at the time, but it had… we also have gravity-fed pressurized spring water that we irrigate with.

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vicki fisk: And so, I… We bought that property, and…

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vicki fisk: another neighbor had some hot water that he didn't know where to take after he had used it, and I said, well, I think I have a pretty good idea that I could use it. And, so…

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vicki fisk: to make a long story a little shorter, we ended up buying that property, bringing hot water to it, and then building a home. So, we designed and built the home, my wife's an artist, and her dad

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vicki fisk: Is a draftsman, and so we drew this house, this passive solar house that's heated with hot water.

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vicki fisk: And also passively cooled, and heated.

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vicki fisk: So it can be heated in many different ways. So we built this house in 2016. We started building it in the summer of 2016. It's still not done yet. I'm still working on the front door right now.

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vicki fisk: So, it's been a long process, but it's been really enjoyable. We lived in a tent for about…

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vicki fisk: Five months while we got it kind of dry, and the shelter, ready for us.

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vicki fisk: And then we moved in, and fortunately, we didn't have hot water because we didn't have any insulation.

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vicki fisk: And, and the sun, that helped us keep it warm, but

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vicki fisk: that was the summer of… or the winter of 2016, 2017, which was what they call Snowmageddon, or around here.

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vicki fisk: And, it was a tough winter, but we made it through,

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vicki fisk: And it's just been a long, you know, process. We planted fruit trees. The first thing we did was plant some windbreak trees and fruit trees that were as big as my thumb, and now those fruit trees are about…

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vicki fisk: That big around now, 10 years later.

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vicki fisk: So, that was kind of, like, some of the first things we did. We planted raspberries and blackberries, and…

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vicki fisk: Grapes, and I don't know, currents, all kinds of different things, you know,

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vicki fisk: So, it was, you know, kind of a home that…

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vicki fisk: could kind of sustain itself. I don't really like to use that word, but it was…

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vicki fisk: You know, it's a productive home.

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vicki fisk: it produces…

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vicki fisk: A lot of food, it produces a lot of connection to the cosmos. I didn't realize building a passive solar house with all south-facing windows, how much I didn't know about the process of the sun and the moon.

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vicki fisk: But that house taught me all of those things. I mean, it taught me… it is still teaching me more stuff. Yeah. Like, where I see the moon hit the, house in the summertime is where the sun hits the house in the wintertime.

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vicki fisk: So, all these different aspects, I mean, it's all… it's all that kind of stuff that I really have to show it to somebody to understand it, because it's really…

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vicki fisk: Hard to describe, but I'm not really that great at articulating

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vicki fisk: those experiences unless I'm in front of them. So, not being in there, I could show you in person, but…

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vicki fisk: It's, been a real amazing process to… create, build.

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vicki fisk: Farm, you know, we have 6… we have 5 cows now, and…

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vicki fisk: You know, we put up an acre of hay, so we put up enough hay.

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vicki fisk: On an acre to feed the cows that are on a neighbor's property of 3 acres, so we have our own beef.

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vicki fisk: And we… we produce our own bone broth, tallow.

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vicki fisk: And…

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vicki fisk: Yeah, it's a… it's a place of, I don't know, abundance. I mean, we really have a lot of fun. We're… I mean, I… I have to…

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vicki fisk: I often pinch myself as about how much fun we get to have on a daily basis, just…

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vicki fisk: doing whatever it is that we're doing. Me came home the other day, and he was making pesto, and she just harvests all the basil, and you know, I'm working on the front door that's made out of an old water tank that was Buell's water tank during the…

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vicki fisk: You know, early 1900s, and that door is, you know, gonna be the entrance to our home made out of redwood. Nice. So…

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vicki fisk: That's so nice. It's just a project of…

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vicki fisk: You know, it just continues to kind of grow on itself, and

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vicki fisk: it's kind of turned into this big oak tree itself, the whole entire project, that just keeps growing. I have a few things that I can add to that, witnessing this, project over the years, and being able to go down and share.

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vicki fisk: stay in the house, you know? They cooked on a…

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vicki fisk: chef, king chef, you know, 3-burner camp stove. They cooked on that for, what, how many years? 6 years. 6 years? And, yeah, a long time, you know? They didn't really have a kitchen, but they had a kitchen, and man, did things come out of that kitchen.

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vicki fisk: But another thing that I learned from Jay.

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vicki fisk: is taking over the property here that I bought from the kids.

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vicki fisk: So many of the different vegetable plants that he grew here, they went to seed, and lettuce, spinach, chard, lots of greens.

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vicki fisk: had a permanent place here, and they just succeeded themselves every year, and they… they would migrate to different places on the property every, you know, where they were stronger and more nutrients, and it was kind of like this traveling, lettuce beds that… and…

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vicki fisk: I witnessed that at their house to this day.

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vicki fisk: Every year, I mean, they've had cilantro and lettuce

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vicki fisk: huge amounts of cilantro and lettuce that they let go to seed every year, and I mean, it's the first thing up in the spring, they've got greens coming out, and then…

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vicki fisk: Load after load after load every year of wood chips would come in.

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vicki fisk: And, for the driveway, and to, you know, to drive on and stuff. So they actually dug all that up this year, and made this huge pile of wood chips on one end of their property, and now there's charred spinach, lettuce, potatoes.

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vicki fisk: Cucumbers. Cucumbers, all growing in this pile of wood chips.

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vicki fisk: Just from scraping it up, and all the seeds that… and plants. And to me, that is fascinating, because it's a… it's an ongoing source of food.

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vicki fisk: that is acclimated to that property, and it just keeps on giving and giving and giving, and you don't have to do anything. You don't have to even plant any of them. And I find that really fascinating.

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vicki fisk: And Tesla, their daughter and my granddaughter,

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vicki fisk: Over the years, you know, she's just a little tyke when they started building the house, and she knows every tool. She helped her dad build this house, and Amy was a very, very busy artist in a lot of that first years of building, so she was on a lot of art projects, and Tesla and Jay would

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vicki fisk: helped build this house, and she knew every tool, and Amy would go to, or go to get a tool for something, and Tessa would correct her.

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vicki fisk: That's not the right tool, Mom!

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vicki fisk: You know, this is what you need, and she'd go get it. So, they homeschooled her kid, and I mean, what an amazing testimony to an education for a child.

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vicki fisk: living in the country, and they have chickens, and I think… did Tesla help you build the chick shop?

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vicki fisk: Yeah, she did. They have this thing they call the Chick's Shaw, which is a chicken coop on wheels.

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vicki fisk: Kind of like a Chinese rickshaw that you would pull around a person in it. Well, it's for chickens, so they can move it anywhere on their property.

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vicki fisk: And they have a little electrified fence around it. And they've had that thing for years! Yeah, we've probably had it about 12 years. Yeah, and the chickens are happy, and they move that thing around on the property, just like a chicken tractor, but they have the little electrical fence around it, so the chickens are…

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vicki fisk: Are doing great work.

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vicki fisk: on the property.

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vicki fisk: So, it's been fun to witness these different… Innovative ways of living That are… they're so natural.

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vicki fisk: It's, like, J… Also learned about lavender.

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vicki fisk: You've got to tell us about the lavender. Yeah, you know, Lofton Lavender has,

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vicki fisk: It's hard to germinate, because the seed, if it's harvested.

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vicki fisk: Often needs to be scarified or sanded.

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vicki fisk: Or, you know, I roughed up, and then it needs to be stratified, so oftentimes you have to put it in the freezer.

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vicki fisk: Hmm…

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vicki fisk: But I was out one spring, pulling some weeds next to the lavender, and it was a windy day, and I hear a little bit of a noise.

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vicki fisk: it was kind of a rattle noise, and I don't cut the… oftentimes, people cut the seed pods off in the fall.

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vicki fisk: And I like to let plants go all the way.

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vicki fisk: So they can have their… Full expression from, you know, seed to… seed to seed, essentially.

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vicki fisk: You know, from the seed to producing the seed. So, I left the lavender flowers on, and then I hear, while in the wind, a little tiny rattle.

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vicki fisk: And this is in the spring, after it had gone through, you know, all of winter.

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vicki fisk: And it occurred to me, like, oh… Well…

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vicki fisk: That's the scarification or the sanding of the seed.

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vicki fisk: And the winter is the stratification, if you want to be technical about it, of the seed. So now it should be ready to plant.

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vicki fisk: Well, then I thought, well, what if… what happens if you just leave it in the pot, and they're kind of an humble flower, and it faces up?

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vicki fisk: So the seed pod's up, so it kind of has to fall over in order for that seed to come out. Well, sure enough, like, 2 or 3 weeks later, I looked underneath all the mama plants, and there's a whole bunch of lavender. Little, small lavender starts.

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vicki fisk: And I thought, we tried to germinate it many times, and we'd never get any to germinate. Me either. Almost impossible to germinate. Well…

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vicki fisk: After this, we just started transplanting lavender. We had more lavender than we can imagine.

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vicki fisk: And we started giving them away to people, and the seeds got a start on their own, and we never had to.

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vicki fisk: we never had to get involved with the whole process of trying to sand a little tiny seed and put it in the freezer. It's like, it knows what to do on its own.

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vicki fisk: So…

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Bo H: Did you… did you… Take the dried seed pod.

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Bo H: On the stock and turn the stocks upside down?

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vicki fisk: You know, I just let it do it, let it do it on its own.

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Bo H: Naturally.

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vicki fisk: Perfectly timed to be the right.

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Bo H: No.

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vicki fisk: To get to the perfect time to drop its seed in the springtime, and it's… and they usually come right underneath the mama plant, underneath the mother.

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Bo H: No, I have some lavender in my very, very small

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Bo H: garden. I live in an apartment.

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Bo H: And I've been really tempted to cut the flower heads off and use them. I make a bunch of different botanical,

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Bo H: and potions and what have you, but I've been hesitating because I want the pollinators to have as much

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Bo H: Food as they can before the cold weather sets in.

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Bo H: And now I'm glad I haven't, because I'm going to be checking underneath those plants come springtime.

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vicki fisk: Yeah, if you let them go all through the summer, I mean, they usually, around here anyways, they bloom in…

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vicki fisk: Late June. Late June, and then all the way into mid… like, almost to mid-July is when they're finished. So I harvest a lot of the flowers, and then make essential oil with those.

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Bo H: Right.

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vicki fisk: But…

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vicki fisk: we have a lot of lavender, so, I mean, we have many, many plants. I mean, it aligns our whole entire driveway, so… It's a big edge.

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Bo H: Wow.

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vicki fisk: Edge of lavender, so we have a lot of lavender, so it's hard, you know, I can't harvest it all. It's so much to harvest.

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vicki fisk: So, you know, I harvested and made maybe

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vicki fisk: 15 milliliters of essential oil this spring, or this summer, and I didn't even put a dent in it. So we have a bunch of seed pods up now, but I haven't been harvesting more of that lavender. We could start a nursery. You could start a nursery just on letting things go to seed. Yes.

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vicki fisk: And not even… and let them start in the ground, and then dig them up and then pot them. Or just, you know, give them to people that way. That's what I… yeah, that's what I do with my goji berries. In fact, my goji berries are so crowded from so many babies that…

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vicki fisk: they're kind of not producing as much as they could if I give them more space.

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vicki fisk: But they see themselves, and

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vicki fisk: got the Red Hot Pokers from Jay, and they have a whole Red Hot Poker farm in one little section, because… but it's true, just letting enough of your plants go to seed and do their full cycle, and I,

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vicki fisk: for my… the third year in a row now, I've got some chard going to seed right where it wants to grow, and I'll be harvesting that seed again.

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vicki fisk: It's kind of… and Jay said, well, it's becoming a perennial.

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vicki fisk: And in a way, it really is.

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vicki fisk: Yeah, well, a charge especially is a biennial, so it comes on every other, you know, it sends you every other year, so…

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Bo H: Right.

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vicki fisk: It, you know, you can kind of turn annuals into perennials if you let them produce

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vicki fisk: You know, because in a seed pack, let's say you get a lettuce seed pack, you might get 200 seeds. But if you let one plant go to seed, you might get

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vicki fisk: 10 bills? 10,000 or $20,000.

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Bo H: Yeah, exactly.

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vicki fisk: So now you're increasing the odds of having, if you let it go to seed and fall on the ground.

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vicki fisk: A lot of those seeds aren't going to be good, but the most viable for your place are going to be…

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vicki fisk: you're gonna take.

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vicki fisk: Exactly. And so, you know, when you… when you buy seeds, you're not really… you're usually getting seed from some other place, and you're… you know, you never know how much of…

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vicki fisk: you're gonna get most of them. People germ test those seeds and see if they're any good. Of course, they're gonna germinate, but it… when it self-selects itself, like the forest in the forest, you know, you're gonna get the most optimized seed.

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Bo H: employer.

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vicki fisk: for your particular place. And that can change

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vicki fisk: from one spot on your guard… in your garden to another.

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Bo H: Do you… Do you safe seat? Do you have, like, a seat?

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vicki fisk: I used to… I used to save seeds like crazy, and we have a lot of seeds, but I figured out not save… saving seed is best on the plant or in the ground. Yeah.

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Bo H: That makes a lot of sense.

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vicki fisk: I kind of stop saving seed, and people say, well, do you have any lettuce seed? I'm like, no. Well, right now, I have a whole bunch of lettuce seed.

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vicki fisk: But I just scattered it all around.

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vicki fisk: And then the rest I fed to the cows, because they ate it all.

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vicki fisk: figured out, I don't have compost bins anymore, I used to keep big, complicated compost bins and do worm composting and all that stuff, used to make worm compost tea, but then it occurred to me, like, why am I doing all this labor and I let loose all the worms into the yard?

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vicki fisk: And I turned the whole entire yard into a worm compost farm.

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vicki fisk: Nice. And then I… the cows compost faster than anything else.

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vicki fisk: So, I will feed almost all of the garden scraps to the cows, and they eat most of it.

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vicki fisk: What they don't… What they don't eat.

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vicki fisk: Gets trampled back into the ground, into the pasture.

330
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Bo H: Are all of your cows meat cows, or do you have dairy cows, too?

331
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vicki fisk: No, just meat cows. I don't… we don't have any dairy cows. I do have one cow and a heifer that is just… we just got a bull, a little bull calf, so he's going to be breeding

332
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vicki fisk: those two… we could turn a milk… we could turn one into a milk cow, but I mostly have them for beef at this point.

333
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vicki fisk: So… It's the best meat ever.

334
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Bo H: My sister used to have… when they lived in Montana, they had a herd of about 30.

335
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vicki fisk: And it…

336
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Bo H: I don't eat meat anymore, but I agree with you, it was the best meat I'd ever had.

337
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vicki fisk: Yeah, it's nice. It kind of gets spoiled when you're only eating meat now. I don't…

338
00:39:33.380 --> 00:39:37.659
vicki fisk: I don't eat any other meat. We covet that meat.

339
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.689
vicki fisk: And family gatherings. Is Jay bringing… oh yeah, this is gonna be good.

340
00:39:43.560 --> 00:39:50.210
vicki fisk: We butcher one cow a year, so we have enough for ourselves and, A couple of neighbors.

341
00:39:50.730 --> 00:39:52.430
vicki fisk: So…

342
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Bo H: Something that's, very…

343
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Bo H: interesting to me that when you were still living in the house that Vicki owns now, that she bought from you.

344
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Bo H: And correct me if I'm wrong in my remembering this, but at one point, you went to a bunch of your neighbors.

345
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Bo H: On your block, and ones behind you, and tried to start a cooperative of people

346
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Bo H: with chickens and other things like that, could you… Talk about that at all?

347
00:40:21.310 --> 00:40:28.130
vicki fisk: Yeah, there was a little alleyway in the back, that was never… it was blocked on both ends. It was gonna be an alley, like…

348
00:40:28.240 --> 00:40:31.129
vicki fisk: You know, older homes had.

349
00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:35.050
vicki fisk: And somehow, there was a park.

350
00:40:35.180 --> 00:40:40.780
vicki fisk: That blocked one end, and then it never really got incorporated into,

351
00:40:42.340 --> 00:40:50.819
vicki fisk: Anything, and so it kind of got blocked off, and it was just this no-man's land that was where the ditch ran, because there was an irrigation ditch that runs back there.

352
00:40:51.240 --> 00:40:58.740
vicki fisk: And so I started thinking, well, why don't we… I just… why don't we plant some fruit trees back here and turn some chickens out?

353
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vicki fisk: And so, we did. We started turning chick… we've turned some chickens out there, planted trees.

354
00:41:05.050 --> 00:41:07.099
vicki fisk: And the neighbors got involved.

355
00:41:08.570 --> 00:41:16.279
vicki fisk: And, it was really… it was a great project. It really… it was, it kind of brought a lot of the neighbors…

356
00:41:16.460 --> 00:41:19.270
vicki fisk: Together, because they wanted to participate in it.

357
00:41:19.870 --> 00:41:24.860
vicki fisk: And… It really taught me more about

358
00:41:25.080 --> 00:41:29.350
vicki fisk: what I thought community was supposed to look like?

359
00:41:30.540 --> 00:41:31.760
vicki fisk: Because…

360
00:41:32.190 --> 00:41:39.160
vicki fisk: The people next door to you are some of the most important people, in your life, if… once you recognize it.

361
00:41:39.620 --> 00:41:53.129
vicki fisk: And they might have different political views, they might have different religious beliefs, they might have different… whatever, doesn't matter. But they're the ones that you see every day, so I started to invest a lot of time and energy into those relationships.

362
00:41:53.780 --> 00:41:54.930
vicki fisk: And…

363
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:02.939
vicki fisk: I didn't realize how important they were until I moved away from here and started to do it in a rural setting.

364
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vicki fisk: In a town, in a city, it's a lot easier because people don't really need each other. But when we move to a rural place, we have elderly people, elderly widows that live next door and close by that need a lot of help.

365
00:42:20.310 --> 00:42:27.080
vicki fisk: And they really need to rely on somebody that's close by that, you know, because some of them don't have family.

366
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:33.020
vicki fisk: close by. And so, this… doing that little chicken…

367
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:37.469
vicki fisk: coop in the back, alleyway, no man's land, kind of.

368
00:42:38.130 --> 00:42:43.800
vicki fisk: Showed me what… The power of what community, or…

369
00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:54.289
vicki fisk: I don't really like to use that word so much, because it gets overused, but isn't it… community isn't created or built, it's realized.

370
00:42:55.380 --> 00:43:12.459
vicki fisk: I'm writing that one down. I learned a lot about that, because people say, well, we need to create community, or we need to build community, and I was like, no, you just… we just really need to realize it. And it's all around us all the time, whether it's the plants, the animals, or the people.

371
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vicki fisk: It's everywhere around us, and we just have to jump into it. And people think, well, I don't know those people, I don't really like them, whatever. It's one of those things that they're the best asset that anybody has right next door.

372
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vicki fisk: They're gonna notice something, and if they're participating in their life, and you're participating in your life, and they can kind of work together, and before you know it, you know.

373
00:43:42.130 --> 00:43:46.790
vicki fisk: they're recognizing things that you might not see, and vice versa, and…

374
00:43:47.310 --> 00:43:58.399
vicki fisk: I learned so much from this place here in the city about that, that when I moved out there, it was like, oh, and that's how everybody operates in the rural, because you don't have any other choices.

375
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:10.219
vicki fisk: It's hard for urban people to do it, because we can go to the grocery store, we can go buy eggs, we don't have to worry about, you know, any of those facets of life, so…

376
00:44:10.780 --> 00:44:20.309
vicki fisk: Yeah, that really… I was just able to expound on it in where I live now, in a rural setting, that's like, oh, everybody operates that way.

377
00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:23.130
vicki fisk: Hmm. So… Nice.

378
00:44:23.900 --> 00:44:30.350
vicki fisk: I love… You know, the fact that… And it's so true about…

379
00:44:31.020 --> 00:44:39.159
vicki fisk: Neighbors who live on the… you know, there's 14 houses on this… on this block, on both sides of the street.

380
00:44:39.810 --> 00:44:55.139
vicki fisk: And I notice so much about every coming and going with every single neighbor. You know everybody's car, you know when they go to work, you know when they come home, you know the sound of their dog.

381
00:44:55.260 --> 00:45:07.870
vicki fisk: The cats, some of them roam around in your garden, and I saw a mouse right out, a dead mouse right in front of my, in my yard just today, and I said, thank you because, you know, I got a lot of mice here.

382
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:14.639
vicki fisk: And so you do, you notice that, but do you reach out and offer anything?

383
00:45:14.950 --> 00:45:22.480
vicki fisk: Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but it really, when you really boil it down to that, it really is…

384
00:45:23.650 --> 00:45:26.880
vicki fisk: It's, it's home.

385
00:45:27.220 --> 00:45:35.049
vicki fisk: You know, you go to some other neighborhood, you don't know anybody, you don't know anything about them, but here you drive home.

386
00:45:35.390 --> 00:45:41.270
vicki fisk: And you know a little bit, a little tiny bit, about every single house on this block.

387
00:45:41.650 --> 00:45:50.720
vicki fisk: And that… that is a sense of well-being somehow, even without a huge interaction with a lot of them.

388
00:45:52.750 --> 00:46:00.389
vicki fisk: So that would be a really good definition of an urban community, even if you're not really doing that much together.

389
00:46:01.510 --> 00:46:11.979
vicki fisk: Yeah, I don't know… I don't know that everybody needs to do everything together, it's just when you're in a denser situation, you, it's… it's harder because there's less and less trust.

390
00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:24.850
vicki fisk: in the people around you, that it's harder to engage, and then harder to figure out how, you know, what skill sets somebody might have, or what, you know.

391
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:34.739
vicki fisk: whatever they might be into, you just don't… people just aren't getting into those spaces. In a rural environment, we have no choice.

392
00:46:35.070 --> 00:46:41.099
vicki fisk: Right. You know, it's… you know, if I don't plow the neighbor's driveway, she's not getting out.

393
00:46:41.670 --> 00:46:46.330
vicki fisk: You know, in the wintertime. So, consequently, I end up, you know.

394
00:46:47.610 --> 00:47:06.479
vicki fisk: you know, it's a big part of my life, and I'm fortunate to have enough time to be able to engage with a lot of those neighbors and communities, and they've offered so many amazing gifts, and you know, we have a pretty amazing relationship that I'm externally grateful for, because, without them.

395
00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:15.260
vicki fisk: you know, my best interest is their best interest. And if I'm looking out for their best interest.

396
00:47:15.610 --> 00:47:31.800
vicki fisk: they're probably looking out for my best interest, and I think if people operate it that way, we don't have to believe all the same things, but if we operate it in that way, then, you know, less and less, we… people get bound by any particular system.

397
00:47:32.580 --> 00:47:44.589
vicki fisk: Well, it's basic humanity. It's about sharing our humanity, right? Not… not ideas… I mean, there's a lot of ideas that you share with… with those kind of folks.

398
00:47:44.860 --> 00:47:48.969
vicki fisk: But ideologies and all those other…

399
00:47:49.080 --> 00:48:01.829
vicki fisk: surface things, but the humanity and the character that comes out when you get to know these different people. And I've had that happen here, you know? I mean, I've really got to know a couple of my neighbors this summer.

400
00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:07.850
vicki fisk: And, she's gone, I can't believe this! I can't believe that…

401
00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:12.500
vicki fisk: I just get my groceries from you now, you know?

402
00:48:12.940 --> 00:48:25.650
vicki fisk: buys little shares for my little garden, and I make kombucha for her, and her kids, you know, love it, and so it's… it's learning the most basic things.

403
00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:30.999
vicki fisk: I mean, I do this all the time, but who would have thought how much…

404
00:48:31.590 --> 00:48:34.530
vicki fisk: My neighbor would appreciate it, you know?

405
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:43.479
vicki fisk: So I told her about it. I told her about it, and she goes, you're kidding, you do all that? So it's really fun to just talk. You gotta talk to them!

406
00:48:43.830 --> 00:48:45.780
vicki fisk: Yeah.

407
00:48:47.150 --> 00:48:48.840
vicki fisk: How are we doing on time?

408
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:52.420
Bo H: We have about 7 more minutes.

409
00:48:52.420 --> 00:48:53.589
vicki fisk: 7 more minutes.

410
00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:54.600
Bo H: Yes, ma'am.

411
00:48:54.780 --> 00:49:02.830
vicki fisk: So, Jay, I and Bo… Bo and I both ask these questions of our different guests.

412
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:14.730
vicki fisk: For somebody that has a desire to maybe start this journey of getting back to the land and, you know, starting to…

413
00:49:14.730 --> 00:49:25.500
vicki fisk: be a little more self-sufficient. What would your advice be to somebody who's curious enough to maybe dip their toe in the water, or…

414
00:49:26.020 --> 00:49:30.759
vicki fisk: Transform their backyard or something into…

415
00:49:32.390 --> 00:49:40.190
vicki fisk: You know, I think the biggest… I think the most important aspect of all this is to start.

416
00:49:40.540 --> 00:49:42.790
vicki fisk: You know, Bo, do you live in an apartment?

417
00:49:43.650 --> 00:49:48.100
vicki fisk: You… you can still have a potted garden.

418
00:49:48.180 --> 00:49:55.109
Bo H: Yes. And you do. And I think that's the place to start. Don't… you know, people say, well, if I had a piece of land.

419
00:49:55.110 --> 00:50:11.550
vicki fisk: Or if I only had a house with a backyard, the trick is to start, and then let it teach you, or let you remember it. Because I think it wants to teach whatever it is, wants to teach as much as…

420
00:50:11.800 --> 00:50:24.500
vicki fisk: We're willing to learn and notice, you know, whether it's the hummingbird coming in to check out the lavender flowers, on your, on your patio, or, you know.

421
00:50:24.790 --> 00:50:28.520
vicki fisk: Whatever it might be, there's… I think it's important just to start.

422
00:50:28.770 --> 00:50:43.909
vicki fisk: And that can be buying a pack of seeds, and spending as much time as you can outside. I think… I can't stress that enough now with people saying they have anxiety and depression. We used to do a WOOF program.

423
00:50:44.240 --> 00:50:47.529
vicki fisk: Where we'd have young people that would come and stay and work.

424
00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:54.340
vicki fisk: For 4 hours a day, and in exchange for room and board.

425
00:50:54.870 --> 00:51:02.960
vicki fisk: And we had a guy who was a PhD student in economics who was a great track athlete.

426
00:51:03.270 --> 00:51:11.180
vicki fisk: Who had had anxiety and depression his whole entire life, since he… as long as he can remember. He had been treat… had every… gone through every treatment modality there was.

427
00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:15.789
vicki fisk: And nothing had worked, and he was one year into his PhD program.

428
00:51:16.520 --> 00:51:20.849
vicki fisk: And he told his parents, he said, I'm quitting. I'm quitting. I'm gonna go…

429
00:51:21.490 --> 00:51:26.479
vicki fisk: and woof for a year, and they said, you're gonna what? They had no idea what he was talking about. You're gonna woof?

430
00:51:26.740 --> 00:51:29.840
vicki fisk: And… By the time he got to…

431
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:36.629
vicki fisk: our house, he was 3 weeks into his project, and he had been on a peach farm in, I think, Grand Junction, Colorado.

432
00:51:37.100 --> 00:51:39.220
vicki fisk: For 3 weeks before us.

433
00:51:39.870 --> 00:51:45.359
vicki fisk: And he told me, he said, I've been through all these treatment modalities, I've been picking up peach.

434
00:51:45.620 --> 00:51:47.870
vicki fisk: cuttings…

435
00:51:48.270 --> 00:51:54.409
vicki fisk: And… working around this farm, and now helping you guys out. And you know what has happened to my anxiety and depression?

436
00:51:54.510 --> 00:52:00.450
vicki fisk: they're gone. He said, I don't know, it's not even… It's not there anymore.

437
00:52:01.490 --> 00:52:05.429
vicki fisk: And… I think just being outside.

438
00:52:05.710 --> 00:52:13.270
Bo H: is the anecdote to any problem at this point. It really is, just being outside. And if you can be fortunate enough to be outside.

439
00:52:13.270 --> 00:52:20.950
vicki fisk: And be dealing with your own sustenance, meaning growing food, you know, building things.

440
00:52:21.070 --> 00:52:23.609
vicki fisk: In some form of creation.

441
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:28.609
vicki fisk: All those types of things, whatever problem will fade away.

442
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:30.240
vicki fisk: And.

443
00:52:30.570 --> 00:52:35.099
Bo H: I think that's probably the most important thing, is just get your ass outside, that's it.

444
00:52:35.100 --> 00:52:41.020
vicki fisk: Get your ass outside. You see what happens if you just go outside, and everything will change

445
00:52:41.600 --> 00:52:59.009
vicki fisk: And if you can do that, and go help somebody, even if it's go help the neighbor with a project, or open the door for an old lady at the grocery store, that kind of stuff will help people to realize that it's more than just them.

446
00:52:59.010 --> 00:53:00.579
Bo H: a smile. Yep.

447
00:53:00.580 --> 00:53:12.260
vicki fisk: Yeah, yeah, just a smile and a gesture of, you know, appreciation for whoever they are, but that's what nature… that's what being outside does all the time, and I think…

448
00:53:12.580 --> 00:53:14.959
vicki fisk: For me, I have a hard time being inside now.

449
00:53:15.940 --> 00:53:30.180
vicki fisk: Me too. I really have a hard time being inside, I mean… I have anxiety, and not depression yet, of the thought of winter coming, and then I'm not… so I've got to buckle up and get outside. You just have to put the right clothes on and go.

450
00:53:30.180 --> 00:53:35.609
Bo H: That's right. I have to do it four times a day with my dog, girlfriend, so I don't want to hear it.

451
00:53:35.610 --> 00:53:50.530
vicki fisk: No, I know, but… but I… but I get it, because I am outside most of the day, doing something. Small, big, little project, farming, you know, gardening, whatever, and

452
00:53:51.170 --> 00:54:02.800
vicki fisk: I think we're running to the end of our show here, but being a creator is what we're here to do, is to create.

453
00:54:02.970 --> 00:54:04.140
vicki fisk: That is…

454
00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:14.600
vicki fisk: And we just need to figure out what we're good at creating, because everybody has a gift. I do believe every soul comes here with some kind of a gift.

455
00:54:14.710 --> 00:54:20.640
vicki fisk: And sharing it, is… Leveling up to what we're here to do.

456
00:54:20.910 --> 00:54:25.019
Bo H: It's that remembering, going back to remembering. Remembering, absolutely.

457
00:54:25.020 --> 00:54:25.640
vicki fisk: Yep.

458
00:54:26.020 --> 00:54:26.940
Bo H: DJ, I…

459
00:54:27.330 --> 00:54:33.500
Bo H: I have chills. Thank you so much for sharing this time with us. We might ask you back sometime.

460
00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:35.810
vicki fisk: I'd love to. Yeah. Excellent.

461
00:54:35.950 --> 00:54:37.740
vicki fisk: Yeah, maybe you can come to the house.

462
00:54:37.900 --> 00:54:40.500
Bo H: I would love to. Next time I'm in Boise, I was gonna…

463
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:56.939
vicki fisk: ask you if I could have an invitation, but you beat me to it. That's my… that's… that's the… that's what I love to do the most, is come, you know… I'm an analog man, so… I mean, my… I tell my wife that all the time, I'm the analog man. I want to be in person at people most.

464
00:54:56.940 --> 00:54:58.380
Bo H: Yes, definitely.

465
00:54:58.930 --> 00:54:59.450
Bo H: Definitely.

466
00:54:59.450 --> 00:55:00.979
vicki fisk: Oh, yeah, you'll have to come next time.

467
00:55:00.980 --> 00:55:06.889
Bo H: I will. I will. Thank you so much, Vic. Have a great weekend, both of you. I love you both so much.

468
00:55:07.130 --> 00:55:08.020
vicki fisk: Okay, take care.

469
00:55:08.020 --> 00:55:10.879
Bo H: BBS Radio, thank you so much.

470
00:55:11.090 --> 00:55:18.910
Bo H: Thomas, Doug, Don, we love you, and all of our subscribers and listeners, we'll see you in 2 weeks.

471
00:55:19.220 --> 00:55:22.240
Bo H: Thank you. Hear the music, Thomas! Bye!

472
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:23.040
vicki fisk: Bye.