Speaker Identification
Speaker 1 - Announcer / Show Intro Voice
Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell, host
Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden, host
Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman, guest
Speaker 5 - Caller Jacob / Listener Caller

Speaker 1 - Announcer: Chuck and Julie, bringing you the truth straight up. An Emmy-winning former investigative reporter, a highly successful trial attorney, and publisher of a major Denver-area newspaper have been partners as talk-show hosts, in marriage, and as parents for more than 10 years, providing thought-provoking information, opinion, and entertainment - live, local, and interactive. Everyone's voice is always welcome. The Chuck and Julie Show.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: Hello, everyone. Chuck Bonniwell here along with Julie Hayden. This is The Chuck and Julie Grassroots Show, truth straight up. It is not the end of summer - it is only July - but somehow it feels like the end of summer because it is moving so quickly.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: We do not want to rush it. There is so much going on in Colorado Republican Party politics, and a lot of it is not being reported anywhere else. That matters greatly when you think about the future of the state. Today we have Colorado GOP Vice Chair Eric Grossman with us. People who listen to our show know we are huge supporters of Eric and of the work he and many others are trying to do. Eric, thank you for coming on. I know you are busy, and we appreciate your time. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: Thanks for having me. I am just here at Altitude, praying for rain.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: You have been all over the place, including WABC, making national media appearances. I listened to part of your interview, and I thought you summed up what is happening in Colorado very concisely. I wanted to ask about something you hinted at in your speech when Craig Steiner was elected chair. There are, I will jokingly call them evil, uniparty establishment forces at work in Colorado and across the country. It seems as if they are trying to seize control over where the party goes. Am I wrong? Talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: I believe you are completely right. I said in my speech that we are really not in control of our state, and some people thought that was hyperbole. But there is no greater evidence than looking at the congressional delegation members who filed to take Jena Griswold's side in the Proposition 108 matter. Forces outside Colorado are directing our political direction. Until we take control back at the state-party level, we are being dictated to. The more people we can educate about this, the better, because this is not something we are making up. We have enough evidence to demonstrate that it is true, not just a theory.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: I was reading through communications left behind after the previous chair left. I have been calling it the vault. In those emails, she was talking to an IT person, and the communication stated that the congressional delegation had given her a certain amount of time to raise $75,000 or she would be out as chair. I was not a fan of the previous chair, but I was stunned. She had been elected chair of the party. How are congressional representatives telling her that if she does not do what they say, they are going to oust her?

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: That is what the communication stated. And take it back a few months. They knew months before that conversation that she was a complete train wreck. What did they say? Nothing. Even after they gave the ultimatum, what did they say? Nothing. Again, it is evidence that forces outside Colorado's borders are telling our state apparatus what to do.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: To that end, as I am talking to you right now, communication from our new chair is almost nonexistent. I would submit that, for some people, this is going to cause gastrointestinal issues, but it is new boss, same as the old boss. The difference is that there is a more pleasant human being in the position. The previous chair could get along with almost no one. The new chair tries to get along with everyone through some combination of being affable, doing nothing, and not telling anybody anything.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: There was an interesting broadcast with the Hispanic Patriot podcast where they had Steiner on. He was asked about counsel, and he said, in effect, that he could not say who the lawyers were or what was being discussed. He was pleasant enough, but he seemed to think he was elected because he was not a partisan MAGA person. He had resigned from the Republican Party in 2016, calling Trump a nutcase, and later came back to unify the party, whatever that means.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: He seemed unaware that the party is not divided primarily by personalities. It is divided by a critical question: who decides who our candidates are? Are Republicans going to decide, or are the huge number of unaffiliated voters going to decide through an open primary? The congressional representatives do not seem to believe they would necessarily win an all-Republican primary, so they spend time making sure there is no opt-out.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: One of the things you did when you were temporary chair was appoint a bylaws committee that had a majority of people supporting the opt-out. One of the first things Craig Steiner did was change that makeup so the anti-opt-out side prevailed. It seems very clear.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: The actions dictate where he really is. There is talking about things and saying what you are for, and then there is what you do in practice. One of the biggest issues, in my opinion, is that Craig suffers from the establishment virus that Rush Limbaugh used to talk about. I grew up listening to Rush, and he always said people campaign one way, then when they get elected they try to be this unifying person who cares about what the media and every faction say about them.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: The reality is that we have to educate people that this is a war. The war is about open primaries. It took a Democratic socialist candidate getting elected to draw national attention to the problem. If that draws more attention and allows us to go above the Colorado media's head to a national audience, then that is what we have to do. I have taken that opportunity when it has been given to me.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: We are not understanding that this is a war, and it is about open primaries. We are not electing our own candidates, and then we end up with weak candidates who worry more about what the media will say about them than about standing up for principles. Look at the Save America Act. A large share of American citizens want it, and we cannot get it through. There is a reason for that. We need leadership with backbone to call things what they are. This is sanity versus insanity, and if we keep sugarcoating it, we will keep getting milquetoast results.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: We keep hearing from Republican leadership in the House and Senate that they are having rallies, but what do they actually do? They sign onto the other side's bills, or they roll over on budgets. The Liberty Scorecard grades are not encouraging. So what are they fighting? It is almost a joke.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: To Eric's bigger point, who are these forces? What are the forces, and what is their ultimate goal?

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: That is the million-dollar question. What is their goal? I think we can speculate that it is control and power. Whatever that cabal is, it has a concerted effort underway to maintain control. Filing in the Proposition 108 matter and saying they want to placate unaffiliated voters is part of that. The party is being made irrelevant. Representative Boebert said on someone's show a couple of weeks ago that the party is irrelevant. She is right. The question is whether that is on purpose. I submit that it is.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: I think there are two different groups. There is the anti-party group that may want jungle primaries, and then there are national Republican groups that just want Republicans elected, even if the candidates are not really conservative. They may not care about Colorado citizens. They just want four Republicans elected to the House, even if some of those Republicans are weak.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: When the party has no money because of the judgment involving the previous chair's personal attorney, you would think outside Republican organizations would jump in to save it. But they are not. That is why I think part of the plan may be to leave the party without money, because they do not want the party spending money independently anyway.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: They are convincing state leadership that this is the best path forward. They are saying, follow our lead and do what we tell you to do. That means there is no leadership thinking for itself. State leadership is taking data input from outside the state and doing what that input says. We have to rise up and say, no, we live here. We are the constituents here, and we should have a voice.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: We also need to talk about the legal situation. Why are we giving money to an attorney who helped put the party in this situation? The party was positioned for an offensive posture, and then that was squandered because it was easier to pay people off and not have a fight. The previous chair and attorney deserve to be sued, in my opinion. Some of the conduct may even be criminal, but until you get to discovery, how do you know?

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: That is a good point. The chair keeps saying he does not want to sue Republicans. But if someone takes more than a quarter of a million dollars from you, your answer is that you do not want to sue? What are you talking about? If you have a crooked chair and a crooked attorney, how do you avoid legal action?

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Eric had a technical issue and dropped briefly. While we wait for him to come back, I think the main point is that the people trying to control the party do not want grassroots voters electing candidates. They want a system in which they, and the wealthy interests funding them, can hand-pick candidates.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: There is also the reality that the party has no money to spend. Without money, it cannot organize or function. Yet the new chair wants to talk about electing Republicans and unity. That is moot unless we have a functioning party.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Eric is back. Eric, how do we fight back? We thought we elected someone who was going to do things differently, and now many people feel tricked. What do we do?

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: Part of what I have been doing lately is educating people. We have to get the voting electorate to understand the situation we are in and stop denying that it is as bad as it is. It is as bad as it is. The next major juncture is in the spring of next year, when there will be another opportunity to choose leadership. That is not thousands of voters; it is several hundred. We need people who understand the situation the state party is in and who understand that the state party has to reassert control. This is our Republican Party.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: The people who have entered the party claiming to be Republican and claiming to be grassroots are not necessarily grassroots. Some are part of a structure that wants to maintain control. We have to wrestle that control back. Dave was able to do it for a brief period, and look what they did to him. I am not going to make the same mistake. I am in this for the long haul. I am not going to be like previous vice chairs who quit because the chair would not talk to them. I have been on WABC, and I am out there. If local media will not cover this story, we will go above their heads.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: One reason people are listening now is that we are seeing the open-primary problem on the Democratic side too. A Democratic socialist candidate winning a primary got national attention.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: Exactly. It gave Colorado national attention among conservatives because now we have the same enemy. It is unfortunate that election integrity did not get people off the couch, and the stealing of elections did not get them off the couch, but communism did. If that is what it takes to get people to engage, then so be it. The Democrats created this same monster, and now they are paying the price. It goes back to open primaries.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: The Colorado Republican Party should be one of the main things standing between the state and a socialist takeover. But the uniparty establishment types seem willing to undercut the grassroots and even give up Colorado as long as they get to control the party.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: All the evidence points in that direction. We have to make an educated guess about what to do next. We have to fight it. We have to take over enough of a majority that these backroom shenanigans cannot control second and third ballots. We have to focus on winning on the first ballot next time.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: The grassroots also have to learn how these elections are won. Proxy voting matters. Proxy voting is our version of ballot harvesting. You have to go out and get people to give you proxies, especially in areas where people will not attend in person.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: That goes back to recruitment. If you run for a bonus-member or county/state party position, you have to show up and vote or send your proxy. It was astonishing that turnout was not higher. If you are elected to a party role, you have to live by the same principle you expect from elected officials.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: If you cannot attend an assembly or convention, and you cannot send your proxy, then you should not remain in that role. That is your job.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Before we let you go, is there anything else you want to reveal or talk about?

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: I will give the chair some credit. He has scheduled an executive committee meeting, so we will see if he has some big update. But actions dictate the reality. One example is Laura Carno being placed on the executive committee despite being censured. They claimed they did not know, then said they would correct it, but weeks have passed and it has not been corrected.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: This is a war. We have to stop denying that. The philosophical divide is clear: either you are for an open primary or you are not. Until we fix that problem, we will continue to have these conversations about why we are not getting anywhere. When we have power, we should not give seats at the table to people who have already told us in court filings that they want to placate unaffiliated voters. They are not Republicans.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Eric, you have done an amazing job. When you started, I do not think you realized how much this was going to be. Many of us appreciate what you are doing. Previous vice chairs either did exactly what the chair wanted or quit. You have been willing to stand up publicly for the grassroots.

Speaker 4 - Eric Grossman: Thank you. One of the last things I told one of Craig's advisers was that there is a big difference between Craig and me. I was elected with grassroots votes. Craig was elected with a mixture of votes. I do not represent Craig or his advisers. I represent the grassroots because that is who elected me. Come hell or high water, I am going to keep talking about what matters to them. If I do not, who will?

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Thank you, Eric. Keep up the good work. We will stay in touch.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: We will see what happens at the executive committee meeting, and we will see what happens with the legal matters. I do not know the legal strategy. I used to think Craig had a plan, but I do not think that anymore.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: I want to talk a little bit about the debate over Victor Marx and Greg Lopez. People on social media are saying either that everyone must vote for Victor Marx or that they will not vote for Victor Marx. What do you make of all that?

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: Victor Marx is the Republican candidate. I do not know what he stands for. I would vote for Victor Marx over Greg Lopez, even though I do not think Marx has a chance of winning. I am not going to vote for Greg Lopez, who is running as an independent and, in my view, helps Democrats by splitting votes.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: I would vote for Victor Marx too, though I admit it might feel more symbolic because I do not think he will win. I have liked Greg Lopez in the past, but as an independent candidate, he will not be governor. So what is the real goal?

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: If people want to make a difference, there are state House races and local races where Republicans actually can work hard and win. That is where the effort should go.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: One other interesting development is that Lindsey Graham's sister, Darlene Graham Nordam, was appointed to fill a Senate seat temporarily. There will apparently be a quick primary, and she will fill the seat into January 2027. It seems like a placeholder appointment.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: If the party had its act together, it would try to put the strongest candidate in place so that person could run as an incumbent. But this happened quickly and unexpectedly. We will see what happens. The question is whether Republicans will get a strong conservative or just another establishment figure.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Another thing to watch is a speech President Trump is expected to give Thursday. It is difficult to know what to believe from leaks, especially from corporate media, but theoretically he may discuss declassified information about foreign interference in the 2020 election.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: I hope something substantial comes out. It has been years. It is about time.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Tulsi Gabbard has talked about the difficulty of dealing with the embedded bureaucracy. She described trying to get a crucial document and being told no by a bureaucrat. That kind of resistance is what people inside the administration say they face every day.

Speaker 5 - Caller Jacob: Before the next time you hear that Victor Marx killed someone, remember that Colorado Attorney General Phil Weiser worked for Janet Reno at the Department of Justice. Reno approved the plan to use tear gas to end the 51-day FBI siege of the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas. The assault was launched in April 1993. Reno authorized the tactic because the FBI claimed children inside were being abused and armed groups were en route.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: That is an interesting point. Everyone knew that the so-called tear gas was highly flammable and that the building was a tinderbox. It was not just harmless tear gas. It caused a fire, and many people died. That is what government did at the time.

Speaker 5 - Caller Jacob: When Weiser ran the first time, he said he was the child of a Holocaust survivor. In films I have watched about the Holocaust, when the Nazis wanted to trap Jews, they put them in a synagogue and burned it down. Is that not what happened at Waco? They surrounded the place and burned it down.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: Weiser is a power-hungry hypocrite, in my opinion.

Speaker 5 - Caller Jacob: I heard Eric Grossman say they call us Davidians. That is true.

Speaker 2 - Chuck Bonniwell: Jacob, thank you for that call.

Speaker 3 - Julie Hayden: Thanks to Eric Grossman and everyone who joined us. That will wrap it up for today. We will see everybody on Wednesday. Take care.